Friday, June 17, 2005

Crimea Medical University is not recognized


No to Crimea Medical U Posted by Hello

NST Report:

Just four years after accepting its first batch of Malaysian students, the Crimea State Medical University (CSMU) in Ukraine has been de-recognised by the Government.

From Jan 1 next year, the Malaysian Medical Council will not recognise students registered and admitted to medical and pre-medical courses at the university.

The Government’s main complaint:

The university lowered its entry standards to such an extent that it was accepting arts stream dropouts and academically poor science stream students. The university is alleged to have accepted students on grounds that they had passed the pre-medical examination.

But the last straw was the lack of familiarity with English among some CSMU graduates in government service.

Malaysian Medical Council (MMC) president Datuk Dr Ismail Merican said a study of CSMU graduates in the Health Ministry showed they were more familiar with Ukrainian or Russian terms.

"This medical jargon, being alien to our medical fraternity, may jeopardise patients’ safety and well-being," he told a Press conference.

Dr Ismail also announced that the Government would not recognise medical programmes offered by 10 other universities in Ukraine. They are the Lviv National Medical University, Ivano-Frankivsk State Medical University, Ternopil State Medical Academy, Dnipropetrovsk State Medical Academy, Sumy State University, Kharkiv State Medical University, Donetsk State Medical University, Zaporizhya State Medical University, Lugansk State Medical University and Odessa State Medical University.

This was because the council had doubts as to whether these institutions could provide adequate tuition in English to undergraduates. There are 294 students studying medicine in various academic years and another 69 pursuing the pre-medical course in these universities.

Dr Ismail said despite strict control over Malaysians leaving to study at the university, the Government did not have much say on the number and quality of students being admitted into the medical institutions in Ukraine.

"If we recognise these institutions, the number of unqualified students pursuing medicine will increase and compromise the quality of medical education," he said.

However, the MMC decision will not affect any of the current 1,119 undergraduates in various academic years at CSMU. Dr Ismail said those pursuing the pre-medical course would only be eligible if they were admitted and registered into the first academic year before Dec 31. He said those who registered after Dec 31 must pass the Medical Qualifying Examination stipulated under the Medical Act 1971 to be eligible for registration with the MMC. He said students would be allowed a credit transfer between two recognised medical training institutions and not between a recognised and unrecognised institution. For CSMU students, he added, only those registered during the recognition period were eligible for a credit transfer.

Dr Ismail said CSMU was given MMC recognition after a visit by a Malaysan delegation in 2001. But complaints started flowing in soon after about the poor quality of undergraduates, especially with the university’s willingness to accept students with a Cumulative Grade Point Average (CGPA) well below the 4.0 required in Malaysia.

It is understood that the university even accepted those with a CGPA below 3.0.

"In Malaysia, our standards of entry are very high with even those with 10As and 13As finding it difficult to enter our medical colleges."

Acting on the complaints, MMC officials visited CSMU in 2003 to investigate and found that the intake of Malaysian students had ballooned to 900 from just 53 in 2001. Dr Ismail said the drastic increase in students would inevitably compromise the quality of education as far as teaching staff and other resources were concerned.

He said the Ukraine’s 10 other universities applied for recognition in 2003. But investigations showed that they too had questionable entry standards for students.

He said the MMC, as the custodian of the medical profession in Malaysia, would not compromise on patient safety. "We will always ensure that Malaysian medical undergraduates have the knowledge and skills to practise medicine safely," he said.

Malaysia recognises 344 medical institutions worldwide.

The de-recognition of the medical programme at the Crimea State Medical University (CSMU) in Ukraine has shocked many.

Most upset were parents of those registered for the pre-medical course in September, as the Malaysian Medical Council’s decision today only accepts pre-medical students who enter their first academic year by Dec 31 this year.

A concerned mother from Johor, who declined to be identified, said she had paid more than RM7,000 to an agent to enrol her daughter for the pre-medical course. "I checked whether the university was recognised before paying the money," she said. "We made the payment in March as places would not be available if bookings were late. The MMC should have announced its decision in February before we made our bookings."

Another parent, Mohd Sofian Ali, said he was unsure what to do as he had made preparations to send his son, Ahmad Adli, to the university in September. "I have to make a crucial decision whether to send him or not," he said.

Dr Subendran Arumugam, director of Ukrainian Medical Education Sdn Bhd, which represents CSMU in Malaysia, said the MMC’s decision was "perplexing" as it came unannounced. "We were not informed at all," he told the New Straits Times in a telephone interview from Ukraine. "We first heard about it from students but dismissed it as a rumour. Then we heard it from the Press."

Dr Subendran alleged that the MMC had not given the university a grace period for requirements they had allegedly failed to meet. On the drastic increase in Malaysian students to CSMU, which was offered as among the reasons for de-recognition, he said CSMU had simultaneously reduced the number of non-Malaysians at the university. This, he said, had ensured that the teaching staff-to-student ratio had not been compromised. He said the number of Malaysians had increased overall at the university, as each new batch brought in new students. He denied MMC president Datuk Dr Ismail Merican’s allegation that Malaysian arts students had been allowed into the university. "There is not a single Malaysian arts stream student at the university. The students coming here also have very good results."

On the alleged unfamiliarity of students with medical terms in English, he said the 25 Malaysians who had graduated so far from the university were too small a group on which to form such a judgment. "They were from the first batch of Malaysians who graduated from the university. I feel this problem can be easily tackled with students still there," he said. He said it had been made a condition two years ago that Malaysian students from CSMU perform their annual clinical training of between three to six weeks in Malaysia. This, he said, would help students become familiar with medical jargon in English by the time they graduated.

In another development, company consultant Mahfuz Abd Rahim said the company had submitted an appeal to Dr Ismail to grant exemption to 65 students joining the pre-medical course at CSMU in September.

Students at CSMU were also shocked to hear about the withdrawal of recognition and the reasons ascribed for the decision.

First-year student Previna Anatory, 19, described facilities and educational standards at the university as "very good". "The allegation that standards are low is not true. My anatomy lecturer is a Canadian graduate which proves his ability to teach in English," she said in a telephone interview.

Fourth-year student Vasini Arunudam, 24, said lecturers had to attend English courses to maintain standards. "And now that Ukraine is moving towards the European Union, courses are generally taught in English," she said.

Puvanese Rebecca Pillai Simon, 24, a first-year medical student, said some locals spoke much better English than some Malaysians did.

26 comments:

Anonymous said...

It's absolutely sure that noone of lecturers in ukrainian medical universities has toefl and don't know what it is whatsoever. They cannot either speak or write english. Their communication with foreing falk is like the one of grilled monkey in zoo with public.
The parents who devil-dared to send girls & boys here must know this. Withdraw them as soon as possible - the living here is dangerous,a hostel is like a prison

emil pick said...

I am Emil Pick of Lugansk Med U.
You know that students from Malaysia are coming and coming. They are in huge amount here - I think at least 1,500+ (the only Indians). The same with indians from India - plenty! Nigerians, Ghanians, Camerounians also. There are no available real English textbooks on any medical speciality in the library. No lecturer is fluent in English.
Who can explain why izatso?
I can tell U a clue: the tuition here is a pea-nut money $2,100 a year + solo formalities payment about $300 when applying. For THIS money you have a DERECOGNISED diploma

emil pick said...

Letter to the Editor, NST, Malaysia
Re: Does the Effective Medical Professional Education Exist in the Lugansk University Medical School?
Dear Madam or Sir,
Many health problem are vital for your country one being pointed to a growing need for health professionals who are clinically competent and community-responsible.
One option is to improve the preparation of medical graduates by strategic promotion of foreign education. There are lucrative markets for consulting firms selling total quality management or continuous quality improvement tools packages to health services organizations and medical universities, but even with independent audit very few formal teaching quality improvements can be found in notorious schools internationally, although the WHO, for instance, has recommended that training to all countries in need. Nevertheless the methodology of quality improvement and assurance have been developed since 1950’s, the problem which becomes clearer and clearer seems to be the fact that despite of extensive fluency in pronouncing ‘quality improvement’ the actual skills in teaching and tutoring seems to be continuously lacking in many universities.
Ukraine may not be even mentioned as developing country with its GPD per capita in $ US 653. May this country present a new mission and be dramatically more involved in academic medicine to meet health care needs of other nations? This question needs no answer: the only willing to offer knowledge, skills and experience is not enough for the organization of education and infrastructure.
The following issues and concerns were identified as the most prominent in Lugansk university medical school:
- overcrowding of institutions due to increased number of student admissions,
- unsatisfactory student-teacher ratio,
- system of seat-reservations for particular categories leading to lowering of academic standards at entry point,
- student admission on the basis of tuition payment without knowledge testing (nobody even understands genuine overseas maturity certificates),
- unsatisfactory pay, allowances, service conditions for medical teachers,
- strict discipline-based education with little or no attempt for integration,
- increased information load delivered to the students in a disorganized manner, because of ill-defined curriculum,
- the information delivered to these very students (from Malaysia, India, Jordan, Syria etc.) is not necessary relevant to the health need and problems of their communities,
- old system of students’ knowledge evaluation which lacks of objectivity,
- there are no individual teachers, some departments and some universities which can do something for a change because medical education in Ukraine has been developed on the basis of centralized Soviet model and over the years has not undergone any changes,
- the majority of teachers are not proficient in English and no one has TOEFL certification for the last 2 years,
- under-standard living conditions in the hostels with comparative high prices.
Well-equipped facilities are extremely scarce and access is limited. Accordingly, the under- and postgraduate training tends to be more (or completely) theoretical than practical. There is a shortage of everything needed for teaching – updated textbooks and professional literature, audio-visual instructions with recent advances in electronic and informatic science, and so on. The absence of the fostering support of interdisciplinary educational programmes directed towards “imaging” does not create better condition for the improvement of under- and postgraduate medical education.
As you may know, the Problem-based Learning and working in small groups practice many universities of the world. The problems presented to the students are organized in inter-disciplinary thematic learning units called ‘blocks’. In the programmes offered, all primary learning materials (i.e. the block book) are available in English.
In the Faculty of Medicine in Lugansk University medical school they name ‘block’ the day after day participation in training of one and the same discipline – anatomy, pathology, medicine, radiology, surgery etc. Throughout the curriculum this approach is not complemented by a skills training with patients and contacts with the health care system due to a language barrier. The professors in the departments do not have an experience in curriculum, instructional design, competence assessment, programme evaluation, medical informatics and English at the level of communication and writing. The Skilsslab as a unit for application of practical education and managerial concepts is absent. All materials created for foreign students in English are computer translations from Russian books and instructions. All they are far beyond the real English.
The ‘diseases’ diagnosed in this particular Lugansk University medical school are fatal.
They are:
1. Mental disorientation (confusion between excellence and relevance);
2. Nystagmus (continuous shift between tertiary and primary саге);
3. Optic nerve atrophy (reduced field of vision);
4. Anaemia (weak salaries and, due to this, weak individual responses and performance of staff);
5. Cancer (effect of market on values);
6. Maniac depressive psychosis (too much planning, too little useful follow-up);
7. Atopy (allergy of students and teachers to inadequately planned sessions, bad curriculum and job for small wages);
8. Atherosclerosis (routinisation affecting creativity);
9. Schizophrenia (lectures and clinical exposure dialectics);
10. Graft rejection (unsuccessful transplants of foreign ideas);
11. Autism (staff withdrawal due to fatigue from indoctrinations and centralized authorization);
12. Senile dementia ('perpetuum Soviet status quo' and lack of openness to change in top leadership).
I hope the above mentioned will help you to change your orientation in Health Professions education policy, planning and the selection of appropriate strategies.

Respectfully,
Emil Pick, FRCR (London)

emil pick said...

A column from a paper Evening Lugansk 15 February, 2007. № 6 (319)

Call me so, if a word is liked
How the English-speaking students teaching medicine in the Lugansk medical university looks from within, we will tell you interviewing one of the student.
Ban Russel. Nowadays, the number of students from overseas in the Lugansk medical university was multiplied. How children and their parents, being for thousands and thousands miles away, know about existence of this microscopic point on a map with the name Lugansk and what (or perhaps, who?) attracts them here?
Student. The point is that you are behind the real life. The last 10 – 15 years all changed, you already would not have known a great deal. The popular INTERNET became a basic information generator. I knew about existence of the Lugansk medical university just from it, about all terms of teaching, and also about remarkable possibilities for teaching, residence, feed, sport and other facilities. For that small money to be paid for it, I agreed to ride to far-far corners. A person who created this imitation (he used the word hoax) is a good author because all that was written on the home page of the university, appeared to be a lie. Even such, it would seem outage, as tuition-fee. There nothing was talked that the pay is subject to change due to…, and it turned out here that constantly compel us to add for $100 or $200, and even $300 USA.
B.R. Let us not to touch a money for a while. Our readers are of interest how you (and all the other students, in fact, there are similar immigration rules in Ukraine) penetrated through a former iron curtain? How did you sign a CONTRACT? What is it, generally speaking and in particular, does its text correspond to the international standards?
Student. What do you mean, speaking about accordance of a CONTRACT to the international standards?...
B.R. I imply, that, if CONTRACT is signed, there are some obligatory clauses for implementation by one side and other side, that is from a student and University parties (clause is the article). The special articles or paragraphs of CONTRACT must be included that determine expressly how to treat situations if one or other side violates or breaches positions. Also there must be internationally approved norms or methods how to quit the contract agreement. The tuition’s CONTRACT is an agreement between this very student and University, but not an agreement between this student’s COUNTRY and Ukraine. I get it so, and this is the norm of international law! Can you produce me your own CONTRACT?... Just to look at…
Student. Excuses me, but you are an idealist indeed. You are the resident of this country, and so naive. There is no agreement in writing, there are no clauses and paragraphs. The one and only paper we signed is the one on rules of hostel residence. From all text, they regard as English, one can understand that being back into the rooms up to 11 p.m is mandatory. All other is incomprehensible and not English. There is my signature nowhere else.
B.R. Sorry to interrupt. It can not be such, because can be never! Teaching by contract, or on contractual basis (within the framework of commercial activity of university) is starting just exactly from contract signing. Without a contract it is impossible either to be at the territory of Ukraine or to be a student. Also one may not either to get a residential permit or withdraw money from banks. And how to pay for teaching! Go to a hostel and bring me this paper. I only make a glance and at once say you how it is important, and whether is it correct. There must be obligatory authentic translation from English to Ukrainian, not Russian.
Student. Upon my word, there is none of foreign students who are presently here in Lugansk medical university with official or other confirmative document of student’s status . Certainly, we have a student’s ID and test book, these I can produce. Here you are - this is my picture and last name in Russian language. In fact, is it not quite a document?!
B.R. Do you realize that such an existence at the foreign state territory is illegal?... A contract is not only to state what money is paid for but to indicate duration of time a residential permit is granted you for.
Student. I never know which term would specify in that contract which does not exist, but we were issued a visa previously for 5 months stay, and now we have the same but for a 1 month.
B.R. Okay, does it mean that if you have forgotten your visa is expired today, being fined or detained by any militiaman in a street? And the frequency of such situations is 1 time per a month?
Student. Yes, izatso. There were cases, when I was detained in the street by militiamen, and all my documents, including a student ID, I forgot in a dormitory. It is necessary to pay a insert – to 150 hrivna. Sometimes it was less, but never happened to me to pay bigger bribery.
B.R. Excuse for this word, a real slave position arose up as a result of lack of contract and official Ukraine residential permit…
Student. Do I not quite understand what I need a residential permit for?. If it is necessary to depart somewhere within Ukraine, to Russia, to Great Britain or home, I get permission from dean's office for a journey. They renew a visa for me regularly. I had no difficulties with any embassy for entrance visa granting. No segregation at all. In general I rarely have a necessity to leave «medical small town» for a long time. In the evening, till after dark, I tried to go back into a dormitory, and God granted pardon from some excesses for a while.
B.R. Well, excuse. Let us quit this theme, in fact I also is not lawyer-specialist on international law. Perhaps, it is simpler to exist and coexist without a written contract agreement. Let us discuss the following: Tuition-fee (tuition). How you, foreign students, do begin to establish the financial relationships with the university? Do you pay for the first year of teaching after interviews and acquaintance with the real terms of environment and comparison the reality with colourful pictures in the Internet or somehow yet?..
Student. I do not catch your meaning. What do you mean, speaking about interviews (interview)?
B.R. I mean the elementary testing, entrance control of knowledge. In different countries there are different graduation certificates. I do not think that anybody from local teachers understands fully these diplomas. Estimating levels and readiness for the higher medical education, how to do it but not having talked directly with children?
Student. No, no, there is not a case, everybody is admitting.
B.R. You mean - without interviews?... Tell me please confidentially, how many students which you know in general do not have secondary education certificates. Is such a situation possible?
Student. Certainly, izatso, and what we departed so far from a native houses for?...
B.R. I don’t quite understand. You mean... perhaps, that it is here far simpler to deceive, izatso?... But what to cheat for, if you agree to pay for everything – having been paid it doesn’t matter whether a person was graduated secondary school or not.
Let us tell the interested readers how the process of your teaching is carried out. On my counts, at least 75% foreign students in general do not bother itself by mental work. How do you think, why it takes place, why so is there such a difference, and why some foreign students do not want to learn as can be. Their parents pay for their stay with the far not easily earned dollar…
Student. I have difficulty to answer. Simply one wants to achieve objective set, and other want to execute one task only – to wait when possibility will appear, llegally from Ukraine to pass to normal western Europe. I think so.
B.R. You mean, majority of students-immigrants stay here only to wait for a moment when possibility to get «through a needle ear» to real Europe will arise? They are so naive really, that do trust fairy-tales? Europe strangles from illegal «eternal» tourists. Not only possibility of such penetration is approximately equal to the zero, so, getting over the barbed wire, it will be necessary to forget about medical specialties, and to remember, what are mop and trash bucket. No, here I am not sure that you are right. But let us go on. How is the process of tuition payment carried out, it is interestingly to know?
Student. This is simple and nothing notable. After enlisting, we are acknowledged the name and telephone of CONTRACTOR with which we contact and which we pay to.
B.R. BIG QUESTION? Does it mean that the process of “money to and fro” takes place outside the Lugansk medical university? So, is that?
Student. Exactly.
B.R. But money as physical substance, I hope, there exists as the bank orders or even travelers' cheques? Presently, they can put to death for 200 – 300 cash dollars in Ukraine , and «nobody knows, where your grave is» .
Student. No, we get cash in a bank or Western Union transaction and hand directly to the contractor.
B.R. I do not know, how to comment this.
Student. Do you think that someone knows that so-and-so whatisname student from Western Africa or yet from somewhere, got a sum in a few thousand dollars in a bank, and with quite a sum in pocket is coming to see the contractor, izatso?
B.R. This, I meant also. Moreover, in most world countries, nobody sells drinks, beer and cigarettes for any money to the people under 21 year, not speaking that to deal with the sufficient sums of money without the control of guardians or parents is simply considered improper. All monies operations with children without the presence of adults are not legitimate. And you (do not take, please, on your personal account) sometimes does not know, who Karl Marks was, but dispose of capitals freely enough – three thousand dollars there, thousand here, and «greasing» the militiaman palm with 150 hrivna, it is in general not a problem for a boy or girl in teen age! And if to ask you, do you get for (paternal) money the high quality product, that was mentioned in the Internet on the page of the Lugansk medical university. Did your dreams come true?
Student. Everybody has his own point of view. As far as me am concerned, I had no illusions about the high standards of teaching for such money. I understood it at once, as soon as I got e-mail in reply to my query about the desire to arrive to Lugansk – in a text from 5 written English phrases, there were the equal amount of words with errors and correct. When I heard first in my new student life lecture (there was, as they told me, about history of medicine), it was my only desire to hurry, like mad, to the authority and to require the money back. The large spending were however already done on air-tickets, visas, purchases of necessity – warm things, heater, kitchen belongings. In a word, nowhere I began to run and demanded nothing.
B.R. Now you see…and if it was written in CONTRACT, that one side (student) in so-and-so and so-and-so cases has a right to halt the obligations, if other side (university) etc. You understand now by what the normal, equal rights and correct mutual relations differ from humiliating dignity contractless existence. «Reaching to the end of history, we will know more than now», so talked Hans-Christian Andersen in his fairy-tales (history – sounds in this case in English like «story», not «History»). I wish you and all, who will «reach to the end of history», to lose not those knowledge which you here arrived with…
Interviewer Ben Russell, FRCR (London); a.k.a. Emil Pick

Maverick SM said...

Emil Pick,

I have no information of Lugansk Medical U. Is it the same as Crimea U?

I couldn't comment on Lugansk U without facts and evidence.

What you have posted here in this commenter is good read and appreciated.

Thanks for your information.

emil pick said...

Dear Maverick,
thanks for your favour.
Lugansk State med U. is not the same as Crimea U.
Lugansk is a town situated about 1000 km East from Crimea.
This very Lugansk Med U. was mentioned in the posted column beyond others Ukrainian Medical U's as derecognised by Malaysian Medical Council.
All Ukrainian U's are understandard when compare with the normal world U's.
The way they lured kids here is pure FRAUD which they posted in Internet. They attracted people by extra low tuition prices and imagined facilities.
For example, this very U - Lugansk state med. U - informed about great library here. But indeed, there are no any systematic collection on any medical specialty in English.
The librarians as well as a majority of professors can not either speak or write English.
I want to bring to the notice of prospective kids@parents on the situation with a higher med education in Lugansk as well in Ukraine as a whole. Never go to Ukraine and to LUGANSK.
Emil Pick, FRCR

emil pick said...

Q.
studying medicine is russia...is it a good decision...?
those who are and was there studying medicine...tell me about the place...the
people and why i shud go or shudnt go...u guys will be helping me make a big
decision in my life..... ... (Asked by Rubini)
A.
Where are you originally from ? Do you know Russian ? As far as I know, you need
to know Russian before you can study medicine over there. If you are in US, US
schools are the best. Other western countries such as Canada, England, Australia
may be better choice. They also have ok schools in Carrebian these days. A lot
of US students are going over there. One point to remember, if you want to
practice medicine in USA, you need to do residency. Getting a medical degree
from western country will be more respected here in US for residency purpose. ...(Answered
by KR)
Q.
which countries recognize my medicine degree from ukraine.?
i am an indian student doing my last year in medicine from ukraine. are there
any countries that recognize my medicine degree from ukraine and do they offer
good jobs and a reasonable pay. are there countries that donot conduct any
screening test or entrance exams for giving medical jobs. i will be a doctor in
a few months , so can i apply for jobs in any european countires. ... (Asked by
vampirelove2000)
A.
Why are you afraid of screening tests or entrance exams? Do you fear you'd fail?
...(Answered by Colin M)

Search Education
The good, the bad and the ugly

With so many universities to choose from, Alastair McFadyen offers some tips to
help choose the best university as open day season approaches

Guardian Unlimited

Does the subject matter?
Some careers require study of a specific degree, for example, nursing. But
almost half of graduate vacancies are for graduates from any degree discipline.
Being committed and interested in the subject means that a good degree result is
more likely.

What does the course actually entail?
Despite similar names, degree courses are often very different and so a course
at one university might be completely different to a course of the same name at
another institution. It is important to look carefully at course descriptions
and find out about the content of the course.

How good is the teaching?
The quality of teaching at universities is assessed by the Quality Assurance
Agency. These assessments can be used as a guide to establish the quality of
teaching and support available.

What do employers think?
Some courses are also endorsed by professional organisations (eg the British
Psychological Society or National Council for the Training of Journalists).
Students interested in entering such a profession should check with the relevant
organisation or trade union to find out if the course is recommended or if it
will enable exemption from professional exams.

Do students get jobs after graduation?
Every higher education institution collects details of students' progress after
they graduate, including information about jobs they now have. This is known as
the Destination of Leavers from Higher Education survey, and is available from
individual university departments.

What else is there to do?
Despite the publicity surrounding league tables, non-academic factors, such as
where the university is based, its facilities and even the nightlife, are
equally important considerations. Prospective students should visit universities
so that they can make the right decision.

What's it really like?
Lots of universities will look appealing, but it is vital to test the water
before making a final decision. Open days are there for that very reason. It is
always best to spend a few days in the town, city or campus if at all possible
as this gives students a rounded look at the location and the university itself.

· Alastair McFadyen is the manager of the University of Hertfordshire's
admissions services

EducationGuardian.co.uk © Guardian News and Media Limited 2007

Maverick SM said...

Emil Pick,

Thanks for the additional information.

For your info, many Malaysians go to Russia because it cost about RM80,000 for 5 year studies to graduate while it will cost about RM1 million for an Australian medical degree and more in UK.

For those who are govt sponsored, there is no problem to study at any university in UK or USA. But many are from poor family and the only choice is Ukraine.

I have a friend studying in Ukraine. Fist he spent 6 months studying Russian language. he is doing well.

emil pick said...

Dear Maverick,
Everybody knows that this A.K.A is used by a person of independent or unorthodox views.
Excuse, but your opinion that a poor should be treated some another way as a wealthy is quite trivial.
Can you imaging that in Russian-speaking environment here, in Ukraine, the promised by fraudulent e-sites ‘fluent English teaching’ may be indeed?
The “teaching” medicine, be it cheap or expensive, must be GOOD and equally VALUEABLE for consumers.
I venture to re-post also here natural wording of Malaysian medical student (she writes about Russia but this is true for Ukraine as well as for all former USSR republics).
Any girl & boy is free to choose any Un’s in the world to study medicine but the teaching NORMS suppose to qualify health care standards of would-be doctors.

I saw the following listed at your site

Lecturers lack English Fluency

There is at least one V-C would dared to accept the truth and admit it and such attitude will surely lead to improvements of the system management of universities. The other V-Cs are still in a state of denial.

University Malaya (MU) vice-chancellor Rafiah Salim admitted and openly called on all public universities in Malaysia needed to accept the fact openly and overcome the problem of lecturers who are not proficient in English.

According to Rafiah, the problem of the lack of proficiencies of English language of many lecturers is directly attributed to the educational system that had focused only on Bahasa Malaysia over the past decades.

"Only recently had English been given priority," she said.

It's about 30 years since Mahathir who was then education minister decided to level the playing fields of the various races in universities by abandoning English as the primary language of education. This way, the Malays from the rural schools will be able to compete based on meritocracy. However, the Indians and Chinese who were generally weaker in Bahasa were quick to adapt and adopt the language. Today, most Chinese and Indians in schools have compatible competency in Bahasa and at such, the competitive advantage diminished.

Before Mahathir retired, he knew he has to right the wrong as he had seen how most Malaysian graduates from local universities are floating below par excellence in the face of globalisation, the ICT global revolution and the effect of the open economy. So, English was re-introduced into Schools for Science and Mathematics, and other subjects. But the collateral damage was done and it will take at least 20 years to rectify the situation and return the system back to ground zero, from where we left behind. Unfortunately, the other countries had gone so far ahead and catching-up becomes onerous and sapping. Even China with decades of closedoor policy had placed greater emphasis on English. It is now compulsory for taxi drivers in China to pass the English test.


The difficulty is not about students inability in English; it's the lecturers inability to teach the subjects in English at universities and that students are complaining that they didn't understand what the lecturers are saying because their English is spoken in African slang.

Until the lecturers are competent to do so, the system will continue to generate graduates with English baked in African pizzas.

And this is your compatriot’s view on the subject:
December 08, 2007

The Future of Medicine

Pulse: This is a very loooong post. I took 2 days to finish it, but it's worth
it. Solely to inform, no intention of offending anyone. Go make yourself a cuppa
milo. :)
Before you think this is going to be some self-righteous piece about health care
policy or the Medicare crisis, take a moment to consider that most of what I
write here involves some combination of me sharing personal stories and telling
my personal point of view.
After 6 years in medical school ( oh my! ), I am ready to join other healthcare
personnel in Malaysia as a doctor. Needless to say, I am very excited about it.
All sarcasm aside, I (really) am excited! Because it’s about time I apply my
knowledge to practice. About time I learn to be responsible for my OWN patient’s
health and not rely on my mentor for answers. But there are SOME Doctors that
make things all the more difficult for our transition because they have already
programmed in their mind, the quality of our medical knowledge/degree.
Over the years, there is much debate about the quality of graduate Doctors from
overseas Medical Universities, lashing out especially on Ukrainian and Russian
Doctors. Saying out of spite or for the sake of saying, based on limited
knowledge.
It might be a malicious statement, but most of the people who made comments like
these are supposedly graduates from local universities, and a minority from big
shot countries like New Zealand, Australia, US, UK.
From my personal experience while doing my summer attachments in various
hospitals in the past, local graduates have a negative impression on graduates
from overseas, not only specifically Russia or Ukraine.
A situation that happened to me went something like this:
Medical Officer ( MO): Are you local? ( Whatever happened to hey beautiful,
getting your bearings?)
Poor Student ( PS): Umm. No
MO: Where are you from?
PO: Umm. Labuan?
MO: * throws PS a dirty look* I meant which Uni are you from.
PO: Oh! Russia! * fights back urge to roll back eyes*
MO: Oh. JPA scholar? * Sarcasm *
PS: No. FAther MAther scholarship.
MO : * Snigger and walks away haughtily with butt in tow *
PS: as if I have pronounced my own death sentence. Was I stereotyped?
For Pete’s sake! I am still a student! We are supposed to be guided and taught
about different protocols in Malaysia, and not snubbed and discriminated!!If I
would so experience as a student, I will be at YOUR post now, Doctors!
Some dubious claims:
1. The University simply accept students. Any Tom, Dick or Harry. Even students
with 9Es in SPM. Even art stream students. There is a huge gap between local
graduates and those from graduated from Ukraine and Russia.

2. There are no well-equipped facilities in hospital that can pass as a good
teaching environment. They do not have proper wards. Not enough trained/experience
tutors.
3.The Russians have a curriculum different from other Medical Universities.
There is no structured training program. Their exams are not up to standard. The
students do not interact with patients.
4.They know nothing about clinical practice.
5. Only rich kids with no brains come to Russia to study medicine.
6. Basically all grads from Russia are either stupid/lazy/dumb/hopeless.
Well, here are some pointers:
1. At the beginning, there was a great hoohaa in the papers, about students who
were accepted into a medical institute in Ukraine eventhough he studied art
instead of science, getting 9Es instead of 9As in his SPM. I think there are
many parties involved who are to blame for this blunder ie.
a) The Uni itself who should have made an effort to know or to be informed about
our system of examinations and markings in Malaysia because it is totally
different from theirs.
b) Their agent. Obviously knowing our education system, he should be the one
responsible for simply letting students have the hopes of entering a profession
dealing with life and death. It is Medicine, why did they think medicine is the
longest course?
c) The students for being so foolish as to think they can enter med-school with
9Es. I mean, really? REALLY? God bless them all.
But you know, I was glad this issue came about because now it is a different
scenario. The agents took it as a lesson and now only accepts students with
excellent SPM/A-levels/Matriculation results. These certificates have to be
approved and stamped by the Education and Foreign Affairs ministry of Malaysia
before the students can proceed to apply for seats, and will then receive an
invitation letter from the University. But this also does not mean that a top
scorer can be a good Doctor.
A new rule has been implemented which says starting from year 2010, all medical
graduates from overseas be it UK, Australia, US, Russia, Egypt, Indonesia,
Europe will have to sit for a paper our local graduates take before they can
start internship in hopes of filtering out the вЂ˜bad eggs in the basket’. Happy
with the idea? Hopefully this will clear the confusion and negative impressions
of Russian graduates. It is just the choice of a place. And oh, Russia is NOT
Ukraine. Ukraine is NOT in Russia. Please, if you would criticize, do it with
precision.
2. My University is as old as my late grandfather, meaning to say that even
though the world is advancing at a miraculous pace especially in the field of
science and medicine, the walls of my Uni and its hospitals has seen better
light of days. The equiptments in our hospitals are probably 2nd hand, or passed
down many generations because new ones are just simply too costly. But does it
matter as long as a correct diagnosis is made with the most primitive of
instruments? We rely heavily on our hands, ears, power of observation, and our
trusty stethoscope because that is how we are trained in our clinical years
without depending too much on machines to make a primary diagnosis. At least, if
you put me in a war zone with limited medical supply and equiptments, I would
not be too lost because I do not have a CT or and MRI machine at hand to use.
And of course there are wards in the hospitals. Did you think the patients live
in the corridors or toilets? Things might not be as good as Malaysia’s, but it
is still an environment they are used to. Who wouldn’t want to stay in 1st class-like
ward? If anyone would doubt the capabilities of our teachers, it shouldn’t be
you. After all, the Russians were the 1-st to go to space, invented many medical
equiptments, discovered many diseases during the USSR period, long before it was
popularized. So why doubt their medicine? Here we are usually taught/under the
supervision of H.O.Ds, Professors, and senior consultants with years of valuable
experience in their field. It is the ATTITUDE a student gives when it comes to
studying, correct?
In Russia, medicine is a norm. Medicine is for everyone who wants to practice it.
5 in 10 people are doctors by profession. A 5 year old girl will know the
etiology of her disease, the doses of drugs she takes, the effects it gives. A
90 year old grandmother can relate the drug names and doses to you when asked,
answer all medical question accurately, clearify misunderstandings. In comparism
with Malaysian patients, Russian patients are so easy to work with. It is
expected of them.
3. Talking about our curriculum. It is said to be the traditional/conventional
one compared to Malaysia which has the integrated system, each with its pros and
cons. But did you think because of that medicine in Russia would be different?
Did you think the anatomy of the human body would change in Russia? Did you
think gynaecology would be practiced on men? How clichГ© to say bias things when
they do not have concrete information about our program.
Medicine in Russia is a 6 year course. The 1st 3 years would be theoretical, and
the rest clinical and case studies in hospitals, where our knowledge is applied
and tested. Here, every medical student will be required to obtain a small
booklet from the library which contains everything a student should know in the
specific rotation. Inside there are different topics for each day’s class,
meaning we have to study EVERYDAY a new and different topic of the subject, plus
the topics previously, to catch up. The class will commend with a brief
discussion on the day’s particular topic, and the tutor will answer any
questions from the student. Then it will be the tutor’s turn to ask questions—be
it in the form of MCQs, written essays or viva. Of course we have to buck up and
study daily in order to pass the class or else we would have to repeat it
(private tutoring) another time. After that we will proceed to the practical
session: be it observing a surgical procedure, ultrasound, or bedside
explaination. Our daily class marks are then carried to the final exam at the
end of each semester and be accounted for. In case your final mark is excellent
yet your class marks were low, you’d only get a moderate mark, like a B+ or an A-.
At the end of 6 years, we will have to sit for the Russia’s State Medical Exam
in Russian language ( same for all states in Russia). It is THE exam we all fear
and I don’t know why people are doubting its quality. Every country has its own
way for examination. Of course because of that since 1st year we will be trained
to converse properly in Russian to people, especially our tutors and patients.
But if any of the medical students think it is not enough, and if they think
they want a brighter future, we are always encouraged to take foreign medical
exams like the USMLE ( USA) or PLAB ( UK) individually. Personally, I think it
is not all that necessary. After graduation, we are required to serve the
country ( Malaysia) for 5 years, but we can take the MRCP ( Specialist course)
in 2 years time. Meaning to say, instead of slaving myself to study USMLE or
PLAB, I’d rather work for experience in Malaysia ( 2 years) while also doing
self-study for MRCP to become a specialist.


As for patients. Of course we have them. Tonnes of them. In fact, they’re darn
happy someone would actually take great interest in the progress of their
disease/illness. Did you think the programmed would be modeled in such a way we
have no contact with patients at all? For every rotation, we would be posted in
a ward by pairs to clerk and present our case to our tutors. But of course all
these clerking would be in the Russian Language, because the patients are not
literate in English. After so many years here, we never found it to be an
obstacle to take their medical/case histories. I am proud that I can speak this
fascinating language. I don’t find anything weird about this because I am sure
back in Malaysia you would speak the language your patient speak.
In Russia, the patients themselves are very cooperative and would allow even
male students to do a physical exams on a female patient. We are all doctors
after all, and we need to do a hands-on to learn faster. I doubt the male
students in Malaysia would get the consent from a female patient. I know
students in Malaysia are at an advantage when it comes to clerking because they
are familiar with the environment in the Malaysian hospital. Give the oversea
grads a chance to be on our feet before your bias judgement.
4. FIY, 3rd year onwards I knew how to properly clerk a patient in the out-patient
Dept. How to suture a clean wound. Interpret an ECG. Explain an X-ray. Give an
IV infusion. Take blood samples for UFEME, BFMP etc. 4th year I knew how to
deliver a baby without assistance. Plot a partogram. Estimate the EDD. Monitor
the CTG. Do an ARM Provide neonatal care and resuscitation. In my 5th year I was
lucky to have a dedicated mentor who was patient in teaching us about the
protocols in Malaysia so different from Russia because diseases common in
Malaysia is rarely heard of in Russia, and vice versa. Never once he let me knew
he doubted my capability to practice medicine in future. He himself graduated
from Shanghai, then specialized in Chinese medicine from China.
So why do you say we dont know anything? Is it because you ask the wrong
question to the wrong batch of students? Because you must know, a 3rd year
student in Russia would mean a 4th year one in Malaysia and the level of
knowledge is different.
5. Medical school is expensive. Especially if it's not our local ones. Of course
we need money. I am on FAMA scholarship because it is not a crime my parents
could afford the tuition fees and I didn’t want to be bounded to the government
for 10 years. Why Russia? The question is, WHY NOT? Medical Universities in
Malaysia would cost my dad half a million. Excluding expenses. And if some of
you are lucky enough to be born with a silver spoon in your mouth, I sincerely
am happy for you. If I could pursue a medical degree for half the price, albeit
one year extra, I wouldn’t mind.
6. I assure you that the friends I know here are capable of practicing medicine
in future. What is the difference between a doctor and a nurse? Among the
multitude of aspects that is frustrating about medicine, one of the main areas
of concern centers around an excruciatingly painful task requiring scores of
mental aptitude, quick analysis, and the extremes of dedication to achieve and
thrive in. That is what makes a doctor.
I bet a lot of ( any) new graduates would make a mistake here and there before
they get their bearings in a new hectic hospital.What is so hard about medicine?
It just isn’t fair to categorize us in ways like these. I may not know
everything yet. But we continue learning. Medicine does not stop at an
undergraduate or a postgraduate degree. I know it is may not be smooth sailing.
But I do know we have the kindness and passion that makes one. So please dont
judge the whole continent based on one person you've encountered.

Maverick SM said...

Emil Pick,

Great info. Thanks. Those going to study medicine in Russia should be informed of the risks. The surprise is that many were also sent by PSD under scholarship by the government of Malaysia.

emil pick said...

Dear Maverick,
that is it!! You shoot at many, but broke only one! To be at RISK, that’s what to study in Russian or Ukrainian Uni’s
You know there exists the Bolshoy Teatr in Moscow, Russia. The exact translation is the Great Theatre. Why is this theater so "bloody GREAT"? Plenty theatres in the world are much better and even GREATER than that foolish Bolshoyi Teatr.
We used to call anything fraudulent - It's like the Bolshoyi Teatr.
The same you may observe if you are within former Soviet educational system. The authorities are competent in the international tutelage like asses in grain. They are stupid and can not even read English. No body had ever seen normal international textbooks published in USA or UK.
Many Governmental staff abroad were bribed by to permit batch sending of kids for education, and no body came here to make the simplest audit. I mean to visit a lecture at random and listen/see this REAL BOLSHOYI TEATR in action.
I am ready to send you any information on Lugansk State Medical University. I am local professor. As far as other Un’s are concerned (the Crimea, for instance) I know that they are the same as twins. All are not internationally audited, all are not recommended by ECFMG of USA, all are not accredited by Medical Councils of particular countries and so on and so forth.
And it is nothing to say about ROOM & BOARD. This is terrible indeed!! Can you imaging living in a room without working central heating in MINUS 10-20 centigrade! The electricity is restricted and heaters are confiscated. Hot water for shower?! It is a dream which never came true…
Do you know what are fur coats, hats and gloves and special thick underwear? These are the
things from October till May…
I look forward to hear from you.
Respectfully, Emil Pick

Maverick SM said...

Hi Emil Pick,

Are you teaching at Lugansk? Which Uni local professor?

The info you gave about Lugansk sounds scary....

emil pick said...

Maverik,
I am a professor in Lugansk Medical University, Ukraine.
What I have sent you is true.
You wrote you were scared by my info’s but it’s not because I’m a SCARECROW or a SCAREMONGER.
I wonder how students may survive like this or was it their normal modus vivendi?
Find enclosed a list of Medical Universities in Ukraine which were widespread by BOGUS
internet sites through far-far corners.
If you surf through these sites you may be impressed by texts or pictures, especially – by prices.
I don’t know is there equivalent of Russian saying – a slingy pays twice more? If they indicate
that US $50 a month is enough for normal living in any Ukrainian town, it’s terrible lie.
You can compare – 1 litre petrol is now worth US $1+.
Your falk here suppose to send S.O.S. at least to their parents but they are still here.
As far as I know from the communication they try to complain to embassies but without results.
What do you think they can do?
Emil Pick

Directory of Medical Schools in Ukraine
Ukraine (Ukrayina)

Bukovyna State Medical Academy, Faculty of Medicine
http://www.msa.cv.ua/
2 Teatralna Square, Chernovtsi 274000
Tel: +380 372 553 754, Fax: +380 372 221 910


Crimea State Medical University
http://www.crsmu.com/
5/7 Boulevard Lenin
95006 Simferopol, Crimea
Tel: +380 0652 274 462, Fax: +380 0652 515 738


Danylo Halytsky Lviv State Medical University, Faculty of Medicine
http://www.meduniv.lviv.ua/
Pekarskaya Street 69, Lviv 290010
Tel: +380 322 722 660, Fax: +380 322 767 973


Dniepropetrovsk State Medical Academy
http://www.dsma.dp.ua/
Ulica Dzerzhinsky 9, Dniepropetrovsk 320600
Tel: +380 562 451 565, Fax: +380 562 464 191


Donetsk State Medical University
http://dsmu.donetsk.ua/
Ilych Ave. 16, Donetsk, 340098
Tel: +380 622 934 441, Fax: +380 622 934 441


I. Y. Gorbachevsky Ternopil State Medical Academy
http://www.ssft.ternopil.ua/tdma/
1 Voli Square, Ternopil 282001
Tel: +380 352 229 244, Fax: +380 352 224 183


Ivano-Frankovsk State Medical Academy
http://www.ifdma.if.ua/
2 Galytska Street, Ivano-Frankovsk 284000
Tel: +380 342 224 295, Fax: +380 342 224 295


Kharkov State Medical University
http://www.univer.kharkov.ua/
Prospekt Lenina 4, Kharkov 310022
Tel: +380 572 430 726, Fax: +380 572 433 620


Lugansk State Medical University
http://www.lsmu.com/
50 Richya Oborony Luganska Kvartal
Lugansk 348045
Tel: +380 67 643 3202, Fax: +380 64 259 6698


National O.O. Bogomoletz Medical University
http://www.nmu.kiev.ua/
13, Shevchenko Blvd., Kiev 252004
Tel: +380 44 224 4062, Fax: +380 44 224 4062


Odessa State Medical University
http://www.odessamu.chat.ru/
2 Valikhovsky Lane, Odessa, 270026
Tel: +380 482 233 324, Fax: +380 482 232 215


Uzhgorod State University, Medical Faculty
http://www.univ.uzhgorod.ua/
Ulica Gorkogo 40, Uzgorod 294000


Vinnytsya State M.I. Pirogov Memorial Medical University
http://www.vsmu.vinnica.ua/
56 Pirogov Street, Vinnytsya 287100
Tel: +380 432 320 685, Fax: +380 432 322 773


Zaporozhya State Medical University
http://www.zsu.edu.ua/
Ulica Majakovski 26, Zaporozhye 330035
Tel: +380 612 335 007, Fax: +380 612 330 125

* NO school have confirmed contact information by
completing and returning the survey of medical schools made by IIME (Intl. Institute of Medical Education)

Ukraine: at a glance
Population
47,732,079
(July 2004 est.)
Capital Kiev

Medical Schools 14

Maverick SM said...

Emil Pick,

I must thank you for so much information which I could relay to Malaysians aspiring to do medicine in Russia.

Could you recommend any Russian medical Universities that is generally good and of which the cost is reasonable. That would be very helpful.

By the way, are you a Malaysian teaching in Ukraine or a Russian?

That info would be helpful.

emil pick said...

Maverick,
You asked whether I’m a Malaysian working as a professor in Ukrainian Med Uni?
No, I’m not and never’ve been to this wonder land. I’m local by birth and residence
I had my fellowships in Germany, Denmark, Czech Rep. working as a Consultant in Uni hospitals in Saidi Arabia, Jordan, Yemen, Nigeria. I know the real thing of Medical Education and infrastructure.
"The fault lies not in our stars but in us" - so wrote the immortal Shakespeare.
The sun may rise from the east and set in the west, only to rise again from the east the following morning, to continue its celestial journey.
To see the innocent kids humiliated by crooks and doing nothing it will continue to manufacture jingles of lies extolling their popularity, achievements and virtue to the high heavens.
All fraudulent web-sites and their copy-cats should be punished and fined. Children may claim their money back plus damage costs. The local overseas authority suppose to get an ad hoc audit and not to perform *postmortem* by some new exquisite tests for *unaccomplished* and *derecognized* medics.
The following is info from Nigeria.
Arise, ‘O’compatriots,
Nigeria is called obey!
----------------------------------
The Republic of Nigeria (Western Africa) National Anthem
Higher Education or Sponsorship of Human Trafficking?
(two letters to the friend)
In the middle of 90th, I worked in the private University of the known African philanthropist and multimillionaire from Nigeria. I was a somewhat surprised to know by chance that his son Lucky became the governor [two cadences] of the largest state of Nigeria. We made friends with him in my African years.
I sent him an e-mail just simply to friendly congrat and also that am very glad and proud such a Africa’s prominent man of. To the surprise, an answer came quickly with a standard English etiquette phrase – any time, when you’d find it necessary, do not hesitate to contact us.
I wrote a detailer letter asking Lucky as a governor of the state to make clear why a lot of students which I meet in the Lugansk Medical University (Ukraine) are Nigerians and, in particular, from his very state? I can’t explain it ‘couse I remember this state’ regulations on practical medical licensure. At my working time, I was licensed due to Britain FRCR, German Fachartz, Denmark Fellowship Certificate. Now all these are changed? And what about his farther’s University with a remarkable medical faculty and university hospital, does it not function already? Why do children go to the cold, «hungry» and hostile world many thousands miles away?
The respond on behalf of the Governor was quick and prepared by a chief reporter of the local paper Newswatch.
An international people trafficking cartel operates in Nigeria. The high (top) management of country level corruption is involved in this business. The Governor’s wife with the Ambassador of Italy tries to find out the ways of trafficking. It is already known that the majority running to Italy does not have permission even for 3 day-stay. Every third Nigerian only has the valid passport. Others are supplied by the well counterfeited (but genuine) documents of the neighboring African countries – Ghana, Benin, Cameroon, Niger, Liberia and other. The countries, which people enter into Italy through, are also Morocco in Africa, Spain and Ukraine in Europe.
The letter said prostitution had become a ravaging fire spreading from city to city, village to village and house to house in this very State. 'There is practically no home without a girl being sent to Belgium, Holland, Spain, England and especially, Italy', it said. Every tenth victim of the hired killer in Italy is a prostitute from this state.
There is no any application for educational emigration to Lugansk Medical University, Ukraine for the last 5 years. The Emi/Immigration Department has raised suspicion that students there are the residents of Nigeria at all. If this is so, their entrance into Ukraine is very doubtful for the higher educational purpose if totally illegal.
The letter says this people have a history of pride, of culture, of tradition and the state government was doing all within its power to put in place legal avenues of making money. “The
cocoa plant is the biggest in Africa, it will employ a lot of people", it’s Governor’s words.
A lot of new directions and possibilities is set for higher education. He (governor) sees no ground for «exile» by the parents of children on teaching in such country as Ukraine, where there are no internationally acknowledged institutes giving the required qualification. The Nigerian standard of education was and remains Britannic and even not USA.
It is concluded, that the Governor ordered to contact with an embassy in Ukraine and to find out all questions of immigration to Ukraine of the Nigerian citizens from his state for teaching.
Emil Pick, F.R.C.R. (The UK),
Senior Consultant

Maverick SM said...

Emil Pick,

Thanks for so much information.

I'm not involved with Russian universities or students and I am happy to learn a lot from you.

Anyway, I truly appreciate your information. Thanks.

By the way, I am going for holiday and will not respond to any further comments on this article. What you have said is much appreciated, and thank you again.

Anonymous said...

If studying at LSMU (for instance) is not good enough, then what other options are there? If you talk of options, i think its all relative. What happens to students who cant get admissions or those who can not afford the medical schools of USA, UK or Australia? Can anybody thats not recommending LSMU as a study option recommend another university in the world where students from India, Malaysia etc study? (other than western universities).
Zona

SURESH said...

HI..PEPOLE..
I'M AN INDIAN STUDING IN RUSSIA..
IN EVERY CHEAP UNIVERSITY IN RUSSIA..THEY SAID LIKE TAT WHEN I CAME TO KUBAN STATE MEDICAL UNIVERSITY,KRASNODAR.
IT WAS CHEAP...BUT NOW..ITS NOT TRUE..3 YRS BACK U CAN GET 2 ROOM FLAT AT 200 TO 300 US DOLLAR BUT NOW THE FLATS AR STATING AT RATE 600 US DOLLAR...
THE FEES IS ONLY 1800 US DOLLARS..
BUT ACCORDING TO UNIVERSITIES..
THE DOLLAR RATE IS 38 RUBLES...
I DONT UNDERSTAND..IT...
IN OTHER UNIVERSITIES STUDENTS PAY FEES IN BANK BUT HERE U SHOULD PAY ONLY TO THE CONTRACTER.....
AND HERE IS A BOMB TO U...
EVERY YEAR THE FEES IS INCREASING BY 200 US DOLLARS...
LAST YEAR I PAYED 2200 US DOLLARS...AND FOR HOSTEL 500 US DOLLARS...200 FOR INSURANCE
BUT THIS YEAR THE FEES IS 26OO US DOLLARS AND 650 US DOLLARS FOR HOSTEL...
AND READ THIS LINE............
THE HOSTEL IS NOT GIVEN FOR ALL THE STUDENTS STUDIND IN THE UNIVERSITY....THEY SAY THEY DONT HAVE SPACE.....
NICE TO HERE ......
IN OTHER UNIVERSITIES U SHOLUD PAY UR FEES IN BANK...AND TAT NOT RAISING....ITS FIXED...
AND THE HOSTEL IS FREE FOR ALL THE STUDENTS THOSE WHO STUDY IN THE UNIVERSITY...
THEREFOR IF U HAVE PLAN TO STUDY IN KUBAN...PLS DROP IT...
GO TO OTHER CITY...

I HAVE ONE QUESTION....
I HAVE PLANED TO GO UKRAIN..
TO LUGANSK.... IS TAT CITY CHEAP....
PLS MAIL ME IN SURESH_KUMAR_MD@YAHOO.CO.IN
AND CAN I GET ANY MAIL ID THOSE WHO STUDY THERE...PLS....HELP ME..

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Unknown said...

CRIMEA state medical university is the oldest medical university in ukraine.The tuition fee of this medical university and very high quality full education.Many International studentns read hear.
For online admission http://www.csmuedu.net/

ukraine-vacation-guide.com said...


Crimea is a magic piece of the world really worth to visit, but hotels are rather expensive there. If you need a cheap accommodation in Crimea, it is better to rent an apartment. I gathered some contacts of Crimea apartments in Ukraine Travel Guide  to facilitate people’s search of Crimean apartments. If you know other good accommodation, you can submit it to the directory and make Ukraine tourism more comfortable and safe.

Reynold said...

The respond on behalf of the Governor was quick and prepared by a chief reporter of the local paper Newswatch.
USMLE private tutoring

Crimea state medical university said...

if you want to.join crimea state medical university you must contact official website of university - http://www.csmuedu.net

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