The standard of lawyers, most of whom graduated from local universities, range from the good to the grotesque, says Court of Appeal judge Gopal Sri Ram. "Many of them are bad because of the low-quality training they received at local institutions of higher learning," Sri Ram told the New Straits Times after the launch of a book, Malaysian Employment Laws, by M.N. D'Cruz here on Thursday. (read the full article here)
A veteran criminal lawyer who declined to be named said judge Datuk Gopal Sri Ram's lament on the "low quality" of locally-trained lawyers and his comment that they ranged from the "good to the grotesque" also applied to judges. "It works both ways. The quality of judges has gone down the drain since the 1980s," he added.
The lawyer agreed with Sri Ram's statement that many legal practitioners were a bunch of "broke professionals". (read it here)
A fresh graduate, who is in chambers at a top law firm, said his education did not prepare him for what he was now facing. "Local institutions focus too much on exams. They do not give you the proper picture of the legal profession and there's no exposure to the real industry. "When I started chambering, it was a completely different world. Processes, such as the proper way to address judges and the actual art of advocacy, are not taught and it takes years to master."
"I do think that local institutions can buck up and do better. "The fact that there are no Malaysian universities ranked in the top 200 of the Times Higher Education list says a lot about how much we can improve," he said.
A second-year Universiti Malaya law student said: "It is unfair of Gopal to say that many lawyers these days are of low quality since there was plenty of deadwood in the legal profession even during his time." (Read more here)
Universiti Malaya vice-chancellor Datuk Rafiah Salim said "the poor quality of local lawyers boils down to an issue of language rather than training".
Do we need another royal commission of inquiry on this matter?
What was the factual and truthful problem? What was the root cause?
Education system? Bahasa Malaysia? Ketuanan? Corruption? Cronyism and Nepotism? Mahathir?
We can never have a truthful answer; the truth is painful and seditious.
A veteran criminal lawyer who declined to be named said judge Datuk Gopal Sri Ram's lament on the "low quality" of locally-trained lawyers and his comment that they ranged from the "good to the grotesque" also applied to judges. "It works both ways. The quality of judges has gone down the drain since the 1980s," he added.
The lawyer agreed with Sri Ram's statement that many legal practitioners were a bunch of "broke professionals". (read it here)
A fresh graduate, who is in chambers at a top law firm, said his education did not prepare him for what he was now facing. "Local institutions focus too much on exams. They do not give you the proper picture of the legal profession and there's no exposure to the real industry. "When I started chambering, it was a completely different world. Processes, such as the proper way to address judges and the actual art of advocacy, are not taught and it takes years to master."
"I do think that local institutions can buck up and do better. "The fact that there are no Malaysian universities ranked in the top 200 of the Times Higher Education list says a lot about how much we can improve," he said.
A second-year Universiti Malaya law student said: "It is unfair of Gopal to say that many lawyers these days are of low quality since there was plenty of deadwood in the legal profession even during his time." (Read more here)
Universiti Malaya vice-chancellor Datuk Rafiah Salim said "the poor quality of local lawyers boils down to an issue of language rather than training".
Many students did not have a strong command of English, which was why they were struggling in court, Rafiah said.
"If the students have a better grasp of English, they would be able to practise advocacy better."
"Language is a tool in law and we need to address the issue at primary and secondary school level, as university is not the place to do it, unless you are studying languages."
"What is being taught in university is not being used by those going into practice," she said. (Read all of it here)
"If the students have a better grasp of English, they would be able to practise advocacy better."
"Language is a tool in law and we need to address the issue at primary and secondary school level, as university is not the place to do it, unless you are studying languages."
"What is being taught in university is not being used by those going into practice," she said. (Read all of it here)
Do we need another royal commission of inquiry on this matter?
What was the factual and truthful problem? What was the root cause?
Education system? Bahasa Malaysia? Ketuanan? Corruption? Cronyism and Nepotism? Mahathir?
We can never have a truthful answer; the truth is painful and seditious.
15 comments:
ok language is a problem, i guess that means english. if we can change the language medium in school why not in court. turnlah.. ke bahasa or best still change to arabic.. man. that would be great. cheers!!
makes us happier as well. but wait.. the ICJ is not speaking bahasa. but nvm.. we can hire an ang mo lawyer for that. no sweat, after all we don't fight for disputed land with other country everyday.
who needs to speaking anyway...
The quality of students being admitted to law faculty is also an issue here.
We all know the double standard in acceptance of students to professional courses in local public universities...
wait a minute, i thot courtroom is using bahasa malaysia, how come in english ???
damn insulting that the judge and lawyer still need intepreter to translate from bm to english and vice versa.....
it's national shame that the lawyer unable to argue coz the opposite lawyer and judge bully him with english.....
FAIR,
I think we all don't know the standard of acceptance for admission as it is widely discretionary and arbitrary. Equally, the standards of lecturers too.
Denzook,
The courtroom uses Bahasa but the case laws are from the common law and lawyers are struggling with the English in the judgment of the common law judges as published in the law journals.
"The courtroom uses Bahasa but the case laws are from the common law and lawyers are struggling with the English"
malaysia has been independent for 50+ yrs and judiciary still need old cases in england and commonwealth as case references for common law ? is this ridiculous, 50 yrs (or 44 from 1963, 28 yrs from 1980 when bahasa kebangsaan mooted) sure there are high courts cases in malaysia that can be used as reference.
i think the court is still using english in presenting argument, i remember in newspaper quoted some accused (malay) need intepreter in majistret. if the court runs using bm, why the accussed need intepreter for - to translate jargon ?
Haiyaaaaaaaaaa.....
Kalaulah bahasa yg jadi isu, tukar sajalah ke mana bahasa yg mudah utk pakai. Kalau nak jugak guna English, then semua bakal2 Lawyer kene lulus English dgn cemerlang dan bukan lulus alang2, sama ada secara oral or writing. Mandatory!!
Tapi, kalau direnungkan, kita kene tengok kepada "root of the problems" i.e. sistem pendidikan d Malaysia. Sistem pendidikan kita terlalu memfokuskan sistem peperiksaan saja dan bukan pemahaman serta menjadi seorang yg kreatif. Saya maseh ingat lagi semasa saya kecil, ibubapa saya selalu bertanya bila besar nak jadi apa. So, sayapunn jawab, nak jadi doktor. Point saya di sini, kita dididik untuk mempunyai cita2, dan kita belajar utk mencapai cita2 kita dan lepas lulus exam carik kerja sepertimana yg kita cita2kan. Of course, kita ambik kursus seperti mana yg kita cita2kan.
Kita diajar 1+1=2 dan kita tidak dipernah diajar 1+1=3, malah memang 1+1 tidak boleh jadi 3. Itulah hakikatnya sistem pendidikan d Malaysia. Kita kena ikut apa yg diajar bulat2. Kalau melawan jadi kurang ajar.
Kita tidak diajar untuk "survive the real world".
Makbapak pulak berlumba2 menghantar anak2 pegi tusyen, pagi sekolah, petang tusyen, hujung minggu tusyen malah cuti sekolah pun tusyen. Yg penting, bila exam, boleh score dan jadi best student.
Saya pernah dengar cerita seorg bekas student sekolah teknikal kat .........(adalah sekolah tu, nanti kalau ditulis kat sini, korg gerenti tau sekolah mana) di mana menurut beliau untuk mempastikan sekolah tersebut dapat mengekalkan keputusan cemerlang peperiksaan di sekolah itu, sebelum peperiksaan utama, student2 akan buat rehearsa untuk menjawab exam. Caranya, student yg terbaik akan jadi "anchor" serta duduk di hadapan sekali. Beliau akan memberi isyarat apakah jawapan untuk soalan2 yg telah beliau jawab. Semua org nak memastikan mereka telah melakukan yg "terbaik" i.e. ibubapa telah menguruskan anak2 mereka dgn bijak, cikgu telah berjaya mendidik murid2nya dgn bagus, pengetua pulak sungguh efektif melaksakan semua perancangan yg telah diatur dan menteri pulak berbangga semua dasar2 yg telah digubal telah berjalan dgn jayanya. Hasilnya, kita dpt lawyer2 yg tak competent, engineer yg lebih kurang jer, serta ramai tenaga professional lain yg tak berdaya saing.
Ini sekadar pendapat saya saja. Jadi, kita sebagai ibubapa kenalah tanya diri kita sendiri adakah kita mahu anak2 yg jadi produk "exam oriented" atau anak2 yg betul2 competent melakukan apa yg telah diorg belajar.
To save me from expanding too much energy to draft a comment to this post, I am reprinting a letter that I wrote to the Minister of Law YAB Zaid Ibrahim. The letter is in my hand and I will come to KL to face Judge Dato Zainon binti Mohd. Ali on the charges that I now make. This letter states in plain English, that Judge Zainon binti Mohd. Ali is so IGNORANT OF THE LAW THAT SHE COMMITTED CRIMINAL OFFENCES WHILE ADJUCATING MY WIFE'S CASE. What can be more shameful than such a situation, and this is committed by a judge of the Court of Appeal of Malaysia; and I believe that she was even elevated to be judge of the highest Court of the Land.
Yap Chong Yee,
5a Prinsep Road,
Attadale, WA 6156
Email :ychongyee@yahoo.com.au
Blogg. http://yapchongyee.blogspot.com
To,
Dato Zaid Ibrahim, Minister of Law
Putra Jaya, Malaysia,
Dear YANG AHMAD BERHORMAT,
Re: Re : Originating Petition No. D2-26-41 OF 2001 ;
Lim Choi Yin v. McLaren Saksama (Malaysia) Sdn. Bhd
I refer to the above Originating Petition to raise an issue of abuse of power perpetrated by Judge Zainon binti Mohd. Ali, who was the Judge of the court of first instance in the adjudication the above Originating Petition.
Judge Zainon binti Mohd. Ali had approved the respondents’ application for security of costs of Rm.60,000 and which sum was paid by my wife; and upon payment of said security for costs; Respondent Stephen Lim Cheng Ban followed up by a 2nd and subsequent application for striking out of said Petition. This 2nd application for striking out was made even in the absence of any order for setting aside of the Order for security for costs nor was there any application for setting aside of the 1st order for security for costs.
In these circumstances Judge Zainon binti Mohd. Ali had abused her powers, because the order for security for costs had been enforced by the Respondents by their acceptance of the Rm.60,000. This acceptance by respondents of the Rm.60,000 constitutes their undertaking that upon payment of said security for costs Respondents all undertake to defend the petition in court. There was no appeal against the order for security for costs.
The facts stated above support my contention that said Petition is still an active case and Judge Zainon binti Mohd. Ali’s order for striking out said petition was ineffectual in law because if respondents were unhappy with the order for security for costs THEIR ONLY RECOURSE WAS TO APPEAL against said order for security for costs, WHICH THEY DID NOT. There is no ground for Judge Zainon binti Mohd. Ali to allow respondents to keep their Rm.60,000 security for costs and not set the petition down for hearing.
This Petition had gone on for 8 years, while the petition is still an active petition. Our solicitors had appealed against the order for striking out of said petition against my advice. There is no grounds for appeal because we are happy with the order for security for costs and we did not appeal against the order and we paid said Rm.60,000 pursuant to the order for security for costs.
I appeal to you, Yang Amat Berhormat and to your sense of justice because you were and are the most respected Lawyer in Malaysia.
The other issue that criminally implicates Judge Zainon binti Mohd. Ali was the fact that my wife’s supporting affidavits ahd annexed 3 police reports charging the respondents Wong Kem Chen, Kwong Sea Yoon and Stephen Lim Cheng Ban with PERJURY & FORGERY and with fabricating evidence. I was told by the investigating officer, Inspector Fawzi of the Balai Polis, Jalan Tun H S Lee that he was told by Judge zainon binti Mohd. Ali not to investigate the 3 police reports, UNTIL AFTER THE TRIAL OF THE PETITION. This is criminal conduct for obstructing a police investigation.
The status of my wife’s petition HAS NO SOLUTION IN A COURT OF LAW, because our solicitors M/s Lim & Hoh of Bukit Nanas K.L. did not file a defence to that second Application for striking out Petition, therefore there are no grounds for appeal; although through ignorance of the law or COMPLICITY (I think that is more the case) with Judge Zainon binti Mohd. Ali is left to conjecture; but be that as it may, the truth is the appeal that was filed by M/s Lim & Hoh makes nonsense. On the other hand as I argued, my wife’s petition has not been effectively EXTINGUISHED OR STRUCK OUT because under the facts of the case Judge zainon binti Mohd. Ali has no judicial powers to strike out the petition. The two orders of “security for costs” and the order for striking out cannot logically exist together; but the order for security for costs has already been enforced by Judge Zainon binti Mohd. Ali and the respondents. NO TRIAL NO SECURITY FOR COSTS.
As I said my wife’s case has no solution in the courts; THEREFORE I ASK YOU AS MINISTER FOR LAW REFORM who so openly calls for judicial reform to AT LEAST REQUIRE THE POLICE TO INVESTIDATE THE 3 POLICE REPORTS THAT ARE ANNEXED IN MY WIFE’S AFFIDAVITS, which were stifled by the criminal conduct of Judge Zainon binti Mohd. Ali. A conscientious police investigations of the reports will show that respondents had perjured & committed forgery. This is our only solution, as the investigation will show that respondents committed these criminal offences, they will be held to have obtained their COURT ORDERS BY FRAUD, and the orders will be set aside on the basis of thr criminal prosecution of the respondents. This case is not one of CIVIL JURISDICTION BUT ONE THAT RIGHTLY CALLS FOR CRIMINAL PROSECUTION. On the issue of whether to prosecute Judge zainon binti Mohd. Ali as the proper thing to do; I cannot see the Malaysian government doing this. You can hush up my criminal charges against Judge Zainon binti Mohd. Ali for all I care, although I will be the happiest man alive if you did do the proper thing by prosecution of Judge Zainon.
I make this commitment to you, that I will come to KL to defend myself against any charge for sedition or for libel on ONE CONDITION and that is if the charge is made specifically by Judge Zainon binti Mohd. Ali in person and by herself; because I want to have the opportunity to question her in my defence. I will publish this letter as usual on the bloggersphere and to Email randomly to as many practising lawyers in Malaysia. Also copy to all high officials as printed below,
The obvious abuse of power by Judge Zainon binti Mohd. Ali has consigned my wife’s petition into the twilight zone, because her petition is still active in law and we are happy with the order for security for costs and Judge Zainon binti Mohd. Ali knows that she is not, in the circumstances EMPOWERED TO MAKE THE ORDER FOR STRIKING OUT OF SAID PETITION; There is no recourse in law for us and
the appeal filed by our solicitors IS BOGUS ! Judge Zainon binti Mohd. Ali had by her abuse of power destroyed the appeal process in our case. Yang Amat Berhomat, I will send to you by post my signed letter by post.
Yours faithfully
Yap Chong Yee.
Dated 13th May 2008
Copy : President of the Court of Appeal, President & Secretary of Bar Council,
Attorney General, Email to practicing lawyers and posted on the internet.
Judge Zainon binti Mohd. Ali.
I am revoking the my condition that Judge zainon binti Mohd. Ali need to file a complaint against me for either Sedition or Libel, before I will come to KL. I will come to KL regardless of any action that may be taken against me by Judge Zainon binti Mohd. Ali.
I will come to KL after the Olympic games and for the sole purpose of facing Judge Zainon binti Mohd. Ali and I will file criminal charges against Judge Zainon binti Mohd. Ali; most better if Pakatan Rakyat forms government; but I will come even if BN is in power.
Denzook,
Maybe it will do you good to read a book called "English Legal System" and understand the philosophy of law and the justice system development.
Isapuddin,
Harap anak-anak engkau atau adik tau pilihan yang betul.
Yapchongyee,
Wish you the best of luck.
Yap Chong Yee,
5a Prinsep Road,
Attadale, WA 6156
Date : 27th May, 2008
Email :ychongyee@yahoo.com.au
Blogg. http://yapchongyee.blogspot.com
To,
Dato Zaid Ibrahim, Minister of Law
Putra Jaya, Malaysia,
Dear YANG AHMAD BERHORMAT,
Re: Re : Originating Petition No. D2-26-41 OF 2001 ;
Lim Choi Yin v. McLaren Saksama (Malaysia) Sdn. Bhd
I have written to you on the above matter a few times but I have still not received any reply, ant even an acknowledgement.
Yang Amat Berhormat, is it not the law that a presiding judge has the duty TO TAKE JUDICIAL NOTICE OF ANY CRIMINAL OFFENCES COMMITTED BY ANY LITIGANT or party to the Court Proceedings ?
I refer YAB to my wife’s above Petition. My wife’s supporting affidavits had annexed as exhibits copies of 3 police reports charging the respondents Stephen Lim Cheng Ban, Wong Kem Chen and Kwong Sea Yoon with PERJURY, FORGERY and fabrication of evidence. The signatures of the forged documents when compared to their true signatures of my wife’s clearly show discrepancy and in spit of these irregularities, JUDGE ZAINON BINTI MOHD. ALI refused to give my wife leave to cross examine the said respondents for PERJURY & FORGERY. Her refusal to give leave to my wife to cross examine the said respondents under these circumstances CONSTITUTES AIDING & ABETTING THE RESPONDENTS IN THE COMMISSION OF THESE CRIMINAL OFFENCES. To support my charges against Judge Zainon binti Mohd. Ali for aiding & abetting the criminal respondents I ENCLOSE A COPY OF ONE OF THE 3 POLICE REPORTS; a police report made at the police station at Jalan Tun HS Lee, KL.
I have been writing many letters to various VIP for an extended period of at least 2 years AND TO DATE I HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY REPLY NOT EVEN AN ACKNOWLEDGE. Is it not the reason for drawing no acknowledgement from any of you VIPs the fact that if you had knowledge of such criminal behaviour, you are required by law to take action ? That being the case you have chosen to remain MUTE ? The facts of my wife’s petition & circumstances of the court process that followed is sufficient EVIDENCE to convict Judge Zainon binti Mohd. Ali for the criminal offences that I charged her with.
Yang Amat Berhormat, WILL YOU NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS ONE LETTER ? This letter will be posted on the blogsite of “Cakap tak suropa bekin” (check MALAYSIANS UNPLUGGED, and my own blogg. at http://yap.chongyee.blogspot.com ).
I give you my word that I shall come to KL to confront Judge Zainon binti Mohd. Ali in court; soon after the Olympics and hopefully by September, 16 I will have to contend with the government of Pakatan Rakyat and hope that I will get a little more JUSTICE BEFORE THE LAW !
Your’s faithfully,
Yapchongyee
COPY : Judge zainon binti Mohd. Ali, President of Court of Appeal, President & Secretary of Malaysian Bar, Chief Justice.
wat can we expect from the existing system which is incompetent, from the lecturer to the whole admission procedure.
being a product of the system, i can only sigh~
In life, you can never trust lawyers and accountants. They are just a bunch of crooks. Albeit, some of them stupid and uneducated, but crooks nevertheless.
Next issue.
from funnymalaysia...
Their English, Our England...
Ours England is simple, short, concise, straight-to-point and very effective.
WHEN GIVING A CUSTOMER BAD NEWS...
Britons: I'm sorry, Sir, but we don't seem to have the sweater you want in your size, but if you give me a moment, I can call the other outlets for you.
Malaysians: No Stock.
RETURNING A CALL...
Britons: Hello, this is John Smith. Did anyone page for me a few moments ago?
Malaysians: Hallo, who page huh?
ASKING SOMEONE TO MAKE WAY...
Britons: Excuse me, I'd like to get by. Would you please make way?
Malaysians: S-kew me
WHEN SOMEONE OFFERS TO PAY...
Britons: Hey, put your wallet away, this drink is on me.
Malaysians:No-need, lah.
WHEN ASKING FOR PERMISSION...
Britons: Excuse me, but do you think it would be possible for me to enter through this door?
Malaysians: (pointing the door) can ar?
WHEN ENTERTAINING...
Britons: Please make yourself right at home.
Malaysians: Don't be shy, lah!
WHEN DOUBTING SOMEONE...
Britons: I don't recall you giving me the money.
Malaysians: Where got?
WHEN DECLINING AN OFFER...
Britons: I'd prefer not to do that, if you don't mind.
Malaysians: Doe-waaaan!
IN DISAGREEING ON A TOPIC OF DISCUSSION...
Britons: Err. Tom, I have to stop you there. I understand where you're coming from, but I really have to disagree with what you said about the issue.
Malaysians: You mad, ah?
WHEN ASKING SOMEONE TO LOWER THEIR VOICE...
Britons: Excuse me, but could you please ! lower your voice, I'm trying to concentrate over here.
Malaysians: Shaddap lah!
WHEN ASKING SOMEONE IF HE/SHE KNOWS YOU...
Britons: Excuse me, but I noticed you staring at me for some time. Do I know you?
Malaysians: See what, see what?
WHEN ASSESSING A TIGHT SITUATION...
Britons: We seem to be in a bit of a predicament at the moment.
Malaysians: Die-lah!!
WHEN TRYING TO FIND OUT WHAT HAD HAPPENED...
Britons: Will someone tell me what has just happened?
Malaysians: Wat happen Why lidat???? Lidat also can huh!!! (jumping to conclusion)
WHEN SOME ONE DID SOMETHING WRONG...
Britons: This isn't the way to do it, here let me show you.
Malaysians:Hoi!!!u pig ar lidat also doe no how to do!!!!
WHEN SOMEONE PISS YOU OFF...
Britons: That's a terrible thing you did...I am very disappointed with you.
~~~beeranyone
Malaysians: CHI-BAI!!
CK,
In a system that dysfunction, the crooks and those connected ones thrives and prosper.
Unfortunately, we aren't and thus stay poor.
Beeranyone,
That's a great piece. I love it.
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