"Happy But No Drugs"NST pg 27, May 7, 2008:
Muslim PUB Proposal for Kuantan
The word "pub" may assume a new meaning ...
Datuk Azizan Ahmad, the president of Kuantan Municipal Council proposed that a Muslim Pub be opened where patrons could enjoy soft drinks and fruit juices.
"I think we should have a Muslim pub as it will allow those who want clean entertainment to unwind at such an outlet," he said.
Azizan said it was not a new idea as such pub exist in United Kingdom (at Oldham Greater Manchester) where non-alcoholic drinks are served and traditional Islamic musics are played.
Azizan said the council wanted to encourage entertainment outlet operators to improve their image as the industry has always been associated with vice and other negative elements.
Source: Muslim 'pub' proposal for Kuantan
First and foremost, I am puzzled and to hear that pub is associated with vice and negative elements. There are so many pubs around Petronas Twin Tower and KLCC and Bangsar; and if you spent some time to observe, you hardly notice of vice other than liquor being served and politicians and businessmen preying for resources.
If places such as massage parlor and karaoke, I may agree but certainly, most pubs aren't vice dens.
But why called it pub? Is this word so significant to draw tourists or enhance businesses so as to persuade the Muslims to go out and spend money in the pubs? Why not call the outlets: Fruit-juice Pubs, Non-Alcoholic Pubs, Halal Pub; or simply fruit juice club, Halal drinklets, Muslim Health drinks place, etc. There's nothing wrong in using the word pub but since Azizan said pub is always associated with vice, then why viced the Muslims though by words and not deeds.
Would it influenced the futuristic pattern and dictates of entertainments. Would we be having a new meaning for casinos, where Municipals would also encourage the setting up of Muslim Casinos in which, only the games of Monopoly is played and include other games such as Batu Sembilan and Gasing where the losers will pay for the fruit-juiced drinks?
This is leading to a new insidious trend of "prostituting" words and dramatizing them.
"I think we should have a Muslim pub as it will allow those who want clean entertainment to unwind at such an outlet," he said.
Azizan said it was not a new idea as such pub exist in United Kingdom (at Oldham Greater Manchester) where non-alcoholic drinks are served and traditional Islamic musics are played.
Azizan said the council wanted to encourage entertainment outlet operators to improve their image as the industry has always been associated with vice and other negative elements.
Source: Muslim 'pub' proposal for Kuantan
First and foremost, I am puzzled and to hear that pub is associated with vice and negative elements. There are so many pubs around Petronas Twin Tower and KLCC and Bangsar; and if you spent some time to observe, you hardly notice of vice other than liquor being served and politicians and businessmen preying for resources.
If places such as massage parlor and karaoke, I may agree but certainly, most pubs aren't vice dens.
But why called it pub? Is this word so significant to draw tourists or enhance businesses so as to persuade the Muslims to go out and spend money in the pubs? Why not call the outlets: Fruit-juice Pubs, Non-Alcoholic Pubs, Halal Pub; or simply fruit juice club, Halal drinklets, Muslim Health drinks place, etc. There's nothing wrong in using the word pub but since Azizan said pub is always associated with vice, then why viced the Muslims though by words and not deeds.
Would it influenced the futuristic pattern and dictates of entertainments. Would we be having a new meaning for casinos, where Municipals would also encourage the setting up of Muslim Casinos in which, only the games of Monopoly is played and include other games such as Batu Sembilan and Gasing where the losers will pay for the fruit-juiced drinks?
This is leading to a new insidious trend of "prostituting" words and dramatizing them.
20 comments:
this is a good one... a halal outlet for those sexually-deprived mp to go and 'raba' some gro butts.
~~~beeranyone
good idea. it's the small step away from lepak syndrome, and mat rempit. youngters, and all ages need some place to interact and mingle, something like a kopitiam, which is of a similar concept.
now, i only wonder if they have ladies nights. but if they are going to be all dressed up like ninja turtle, then forget about it. i rather have my drinks elsewhere.
"I think we should have a Muslim pub as it will allow those who want clean entertainment to unwind at such an outlet," he said.
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Wow, i just had an idea to set up a buddhist pub where 'all those who want clean entertainment can unwind', eat only vege and sit on long hard bench... -_-
Religious Pubs & why not... a market info. for those thinking of an international chain.
1. Christianity: 2.1 billion
2. Islam: 1.5 billion
3. Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
4. Hinduism: 900 million
5. Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
6. Buddhism: 376 million
7. Primal-indigenous: 300 million
8. African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
9. Sikhism: 23 million
10. Juche: 19 million
11. Spiritism: 15 million
12. Judaism: 14 million
13. Baha'i: 7 million
14. Jainism: 4.2 million
15. Shinto: 4 million
16. Cao Dai: 4 million
17. Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
18. Tenrikyo: 2 million
19. Neo-Paganism: 1 million
20. Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
21. Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
22. Scientology: 500 thousand
kilkenny
Not so smart are you maverickysm? Pub is an old English slang for 'public.' A place where Englishmen enjoy a pint of ale after a hard days work.
Pubs today are not called pubs but rather bars. Pubs are more associated with Indians and rowdy drinking. Bier Keller is a pub, Beach Club is a bar, both are places to drink.
As usual, we being human, we easily jump to conclusion on what people say. If Azizan's perception is that all pubs are associated with vice, then he is not wrong. He is also not right.
Just as some people perceive Malays are racist, they are not wrong, they are also not right.
Here in the city, we see our 'pubs' as being clean and friendly environment. As you go out to the rural areas, they get to be a hardcore place. (Maybe those people here are too pampered to understand what I mean.)
There is nothing wrong with his intention just like there is nothing wrong with maverickysm's intention is setting up this blog. But in Azizan's case, we will not know what he actually said or meant as we can only read it in the newspapers.
Its when people try to influence others and stir sentiments that land them in jail for ISA or sedition.
haven't u seen non alcoholic beer? non alcoholic wine?
i am waiting for non alcoholic whiskey, cognac, 25 year old dry, non alcoholic, whiskey,.....
wanna swim but don't wanna get wet,....
aiyah, public house, pubs, bars, taverns, lounges... all the same lar!
these are just watering holes.. serving alcoholic drinks esp. BEER!
...BEERANYONE?
haha.... the casinos which play Monopoly and Batu Sembilan and congkak will be interesting.
this is sth like justifying Ketuanan Melayu is referring to success and achievement of the Malay race, the redefining of terms by Pak Liar.
~sigh! buat penat aje
Many malays don't like to admit it, but once upon a time, they were not Muslims like everyone else!
Malays were part of the migration of Polynesian peoples whose original home was Yunnan in China to South-East Asia in what is known as Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia……….
At that time the Orang Asli were already well settled in the malay Peninsula, so that makes them the most legitimate of the bumis.
Malays were animists then for hundreds of years until Indians crossed Bay of Bengal to South-East Asia and spread Indian and Hindu culture to the peoples there.
Hence we had the great Hindu kingdoms which later also became Buddhist kingdoms of Langkasuka, Srivijaya, Majapahit - but main thing to note is that racially the peoples were malays and speak old malay language.
Islam only came to South-East Asia from 1400 after foundation of Malacca by Parameswara. Again from India crossed Bay of Bengal and spread Islam to South-East Asia. Malacca sultans were among the first converts and the rest is history.
Please note that the malays have been Muslims for only 600 years and have been Hindus/Buddhists very much longer - at least 2000 years. Malay culture is very much influenced by Hindu culture including Sanskrit words like the wayang kulit, raja, maharaja, etc.
Unlike Javanese, who are proud of their Hindu/Buddhist past reflected in great empires like Srivijaya and Majapahit, malays are generally ashamed to dwell on their pre-Islamic Hindu/Buddhist past.
On the contrary some malays try to be like the Arab wannabes, trying to cleanse the malays of their Hindu/Buddhist past - in this even the songs and films of P Ramlee become victimized!
If Islam had not come to South-East Asia, malays would still be Hindus/Buddhists like the Balinese which is not a bad idea, as Balinese are considered very peaceful people.
It is no secret that Parameswara was an Indian and a Hindu prince until he married a Pasai princess and converted to Islam and adopted the Persian name Iskandar Shah.
There seemed to be no problem telling the truth as I just expressed it during my school days. The school textbooks were quite clear on this - but not today, I am told.
Once again the “insecure” Umno-led government had to wipe out any references to this famous Melaka prince as being Hindu and belonging to the powerful Hindu empire Srivijaya.
So all of a sudden our museums, school textbooks etc, all refer to Parameswara as a malay prince. Umno lying, mind you, is not confined to the mainstream newspapers.
In very recent times, the starting date for the study of Malaysia history in the schools has been conveniently fixed around 1400 CE. It probably coincides with the founding of the Sultanate of Malacca by Parameswara.
Today, Malaysia school children only learn a little bit about the early Proto malays and then are conveniently taken on a historical quantum leap to the founding of Malacca.
Early Indian works speak of a fantastically wealthy place called Savarnadvipa, which meant "land of gold". This mystical place was said to lie far away, and legend holds that this was probably the most valid reason why the first Indians ventured across the Bay of Bengal and arrived in Kedah around 100 BC.
Apart from trade, the early Indians brought a pervasive culture, with Hinduism and Buddhism sweeping through the Indo-Chinese and malay archipelago lands bringing temples and Indian cultural traditions. The local chiefs began to refer to themselves as "rajahs" and also integrated what they considered the best of Indian governmental traditions with the existing structure.
I learnt Malaysia history in the 1950s and taught it in the 1960s and 1970s in secondary schools. All the history textbooks at the time had the early Indian connection specifically mentioned in them. Teachers of that period taught about the early Indianised kingdoms of Langkasuka, Srivijaya and Majapahit that existed from as early as 100 CE.
Anyone can see that Parameswara, the founder of Malacca, has a clearly give away name that points to the Indian/Hindu influence. No one can deny this, and all our children need to know about this. They have the fundamental right to learn about this aspect of our history too.
Why don't our children learn about these early Indian connections today? It needs mention here that this early Indian connection has nothing to do with the much later cheap Indian "coolie" labour influx that the British brought over to man the railways and plantations of Malaysia from the late 19th century onwards.
The malay language as we know it today is already fully impregnated and enriched with many foreign words. This is good. Malay therefore has been a bahasa rojak from early times itself.
Rojak itself (and also cendul) is a Malaysia food developed by an Indian Malayalee Muslim community known as the Malabaris who hailed from Kerala. They were also referred to as kakas. We now wrongly credit the Penang mamaks for this great food.
The very word "Melayu" itself is most probably of Indian origin from the words "Malai Ur", which means land of mountains in Tamil. Singapur, Nagapur and Indrapur are very common Indian names that have similar backgrounds.
The early Indians were probably inspired by the main mountain range that looks like a backbone for the malay peninsula and thus named it Malaiur. The word "Malai" is undoubtedly Indian in origin as is the case with the word Himalayas and we all know where it is situated.
Many malay words, from describing malay royalty (Seri, Raja, Maha, etc) and common everyday terms (suami, kerana, dunia, cuma, bakti), all have Indian connections. The undeniable Indian connection in the word Indonesia is also reflected in the name itself.
The Indian factor that influences even the prevailing malay culture in terms of music, food, dress and certain other everyday practices like betel chewing and bersanding is another thing over which a loud hush prevails. Why?
Such knowledge of the roots of this great country, be they Indian, Chinese, Arab or whatever, can indeed very strongly facilitate the ongoing efforts of the government to make our children think of themselves as Bangsa Malaysia more readily and more easily.
And then there's the Hoabinhian culture widespread in south east asia,....17,000 years ago,...
Wikipedia link here
in a time scale for Msia, the Malays appeared 11:59,.......pm.
but,... who's counting
what la! he talk about 'yum seng' but end up with malay history lessons pulak... jeez, really 'potong' kick!
anon 2.09...
"But in Azizan's case, we will not know what he actually said or meant as we can only read it in the newspapers."
thats the blardee problems with all the country pawerfool politicians...
why do they say one thing and mean another? what? want us to guess all the time ke?
just look at the rais guy, trying to explain what he meant... but end-up looking pathetic & confusing himself.
good history lesson, he is very well informed and knowledgeable. This is the type of people that should go to Oxford, being educated fellow.
pub or bar, there is no difference. they do the same thing, just a matter of names only. even a kopitiam also does the same thing, except that they don't have rock music inside, they serve beer too.
only a fool or an idiot will want to start an argument over a dictionary entry, cos even dictionaries themselves don't agree with each other.
Excellent observation, Mave.
Ycg,
I support your idea; but Buddhist organization don't want pub; they want restaurant - vegetarian restaurant.
Kilkenny,
Wah you give me a lot to digest.
Jefus,
I have drank non-alcoholic beer and non-alcoholic champaign but not wine or whiskey.
Beeranyone,
non same lah; veri different la.
CK,
Monopoly is a good game.
Romsam,
Thank you; you gave me a lot to read about the history of Malaya.
Konek,
Thank you for the good information on history.
Fargoman,
Thank you for the great information of the history of Malaya.
Jefus,
Thanks for the link
Bayi,
Thanks for the plane and the good words.
erh...sounds like vegetarian chicken drumstick for the vegetarians.
Hasilox,
You are right; many goes for vegetarian food and ordered drumsticks, goose, curry fisheads, etc, all made from vege.
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