Read this here at Malaysiakini.com:Dr M: Sodomy again? Gov't not so stupid
[quote]
Dr Mahathir Mohamad said the present government is not "so stupid or unimaginative" to trump up sodomy allegations against Anwar Ibrahim all over again.
"Surely (the government) could come up with another story which would be more credible if it is deliberately plotting or conspiring against Anwar.
"The probability is that the story is the same because it is genuine," he added in a posting on his CheDet blog today.
Mahahir also said it is unlikely that Saiful Bukhary Azlan is trying to mimic the sodomy allegations levelled against Anwar 10 years ago.
"Is the present complainant a copycat? Hardly likely," he said.
"Few would care to make public such a very shameful thing as being sodomised. In fact, the last time at least two people came to see me claiming they were sodomised by Anwar.
[unquote]
According to Bertrand Russell and Ludwig Wittgenstein, the ultimate truth on matters with which it deals certainly deserves, by its breadth and scope and profundity, to be considered an important event in the philosophical world. In the philosophy of Symbolism, it is concerned with the conditions which would have to be fulfilled by a logical perfect language, for there is a problem of what actually occurs in our minds when we use language with the intention of meaning something by it, and the problem as to what is the relation subsisting between thoughts, words, or sentences, and that which they refer to or mean, and finally, with the problem of using sentences so as to convey truth rather than falsehood; this last is a logical question and is the one which is concerns with Symbolism.
Let's do a linguistic analysis using the logical understanding means of philosophical symbolism:
Part 1:
"Dr Mahathir Mohamad said the present government is not "so stupid or unimaginative" to trump up sodomy allegations against Anwar Ibrahim all over again."
What does the language imply? Let's dissect the sentence into 3 segments; first segment: "the present govt is not so stupid" must imply that stupidity did existed by way of synthetic knowledge a posteriori, that is, events of such stupidity must had occurred, experienced and profoundly learned that it would had been stupid if they would commit the same error twice.
2nd segment: "...to trump up sodomy allegations". The Webster dictionary defines Trump-up as: to concoct especially with intent to deceive : synonyms: fabricate, invent (see: merriam-webster.com)
3rd segment: "...against Anwar all over again." What can it mean? Linguistically, it means doing an act against a person applying the same tools and techniques repeated for more than once.
Taken together the three segment: The present govt would be so stupid to try to concoct with intent to deceive or fabricate a similar act and at the same time using similar tools and techniques again on the same person if that scheme had previously failed to achieved it's purpose and objective.
Part 2:
"The probability is that the story is the same because it is genuine,"
This is interesting! According to Bertrand Russell, "The business of language is to assert or deny facts. Given the syntax of a language, the meaning of a sentence is determine as soon as the meaning of the component words is known. In order that a certain sentence should assert a certain fact there must, however the language may be constructed, be something in common between the structure of the sentence and the structure of the fact.
The fundamental thesis of Wittgenstein's theory of Symbolism is that which has to be in common between the sentence and the fact cannot be itself in turn said in language. It can only be shown, not said, for whatever we may say will still need to have the same structure.
What concerns this sentence is that we should be able to derive a picture from the sentence: that the story is the same because it is genuine; rightly or falsely; for it doesn't matter whether it is true or not that the story of sodomy is true, but the intention to pick on a man more than once on a similar crime was to conjure the picture that it is genuine and thus true.
My thesis ends here. I am not interested whether the accusation is true or false; I am seeing a picture that there seems to be much interest and intention driven by specific motivation.
I am a admirer of Mahathir's profound knowledge and his ability to articulate and enunciate his points using his power of language. He is a good orator, a good writer and a person who has a strong command of the languages, spoken and written.
35 comments:
"I am seeing a picture that there seems to be much interest and intention driven by specific motivation." This is precisely the case here. Mahathir is a person of single-minded focus when he set out with an objective in mind. He his this wonderful skill that I really admire. That's partly why he was so successful as our Prime Minister.
As we can see, Mukhriz has already collaborated with Mahathir's line of argument by adopting a similar "foregone conclusion" line of argument in Parliament recently.
May be Mahathir should challenge Anwar to a debate on any issues which are of common interest , that will be interesting...
But if umno buggers try to do a 1998, I can assure them there will not be Indian and Chinese votes to save their asses comes 13 th GE as what happened in GE of 1999.
I too admire TDM for what he is, a great mind indeed.
Thank you for the analysis and agree wholeheartedly on what was translated out from TDM's comments.
But I personally think, all this might be going on under Lah Lah nose as he is known to be oblivious to everything and anything around him. He is not aware of it. I am not a fan of Lah Lah just for the record but one must not be too quick to judge and put blame on PM the minute shit hits the fan. We know that PM does not have very good control of his "dogs", so to speak and sometimes 1 or 2 of his pet might just got "loose"....so to speak again.
It is possible whoever plans this IS really stupid coz everything that happened so far happened exactly 10 years ago, down to the commando and blindfolding and so on...
But with that in mind, I do hope the police will be smarter now in handling this case, as we all know in police themselves they have good cop and bad cop.....not all are rotten apples lah.
TDM is the real moron for having selected a hopeless asshole! whatever.
TRAITOR
For someone who is not interested whether the accusation is true or not, you sure go to a lot of trouble with this article and others!
Fascinating.
more fascinating is tat TDM is still dishing out comments. OK, he has his right but again, he contra all his contribution already.
Neuro-linguistic programming has big influence on communication and perception.
As this country is now ruled by perceptiopn rather than truth, it is important and also interesting that we analyse statement by these politicians, whether from the ruling party or Opposition.
As RPK highlighted in his piece, we shouldn't influence to become a cult.
I admired the courage of RPK writing this piece
http://72.47.255.22/2008/content/view/9836/84/
From your interpretation it means that it WAS concocted before, so it is foolish to try it again. So at least we now know that the crime was fabricated.
dr m had inadvertently admitted that it was a set up.
Congratulations for solving the case.
RPK is nothing more than asshole joker....
just want to have a dirt shit publicity for his own face.....
What the F**K !!!!
Maverick
Tun Mahathir?
Am giving up. He is sick to the end and waiting time like Lee Kuan Yew to fly to Heaven, if not Mozambique.
I bet that he hate his own life badly, to make such statement to other person.
Pretty sad huh!
If I am to remain objective and truthful to myself, I am compelled now to take a different approach looking at DSAI .
Soon after police report by Saiful, lets us examine the language and actions by DSAI
1. Run to Turkey Embassy – to protray insecurity to him
2. Declare that he receive foreign intelligence of possible assassination – sensationalise security of him.
4. Sougght guarantee of his safety before he dare to leave Turkey Embassy - he need attention
5. Within hours Saiful picture with DPM office background in Wan Azizah handphone - smear & blaim on DPM
6. Lively ceramah with 10,000 people in Stadium Shah Alam after his return from Turkey Embassy. What security concern?
7. Declaration by Bala implicating DPM
8. Claims to have more evidence on the Mongolian murder case. Where are they now?
9. Lodge police report on fabrication of evidence by by IGP and AG – message that whatever they do will be a conspiracy & complicate investigation
10. Refuse the challenge to swear under Quran
11. Bring in to Syariah court decision, ask for 4 witness
12. Raise back pain issue again after sleeping few hours in lock-up - populist call in nature. [He was standing for hours for ceramahs nationwide during the election campaign, no pain then?]
13. Refuse DNA claiming police has his DNA in 1998 already (hello, i thought DSAI don’t trust the police and they FABRICATED evidence)
14. Question why the need to arrest him? Hasn’t DSAI acknowledged himself of the imminent arrest? He last mentioned the possible arrest during the debate with the Cheeky. [Don’t forget that DSAI has failed to turn up to give statement to police earlier on. –Police has given him leeway]
The above action seems to lead me to believe that DSAI could be employing the following in the battle:
I) DIVERSION STRATEGY -linking DPM to Mongolian girl case, existence of fabrication evidence practice by Govt, high-handedness of police action – VERY POLULAR indeed.
II) DELAY TACTIC and PROLONG & COMPLICATE the investigation of the sodomy allegation.
Is there better alternative for Malaysian?
Is this a game of media brainwashing? Where you pound a certain objective into the mind of people to think that the false is true and the true is false?
If that's the case, then I say unto you fellow Malaysians, we are again in a very dark time of the history of our nation.
In my sincere opinion, Mahathir is why we are here going through all this nonsence. What continues here is what was from Mahathir's own legacy.
I don't know about you guys, but I'm getting sick over this idiotic shenanigans.
..."present government is not so stupid or unimaginative"...
AND TO THINK HE CALLED BADAWI ADMINISTRATION A "HP6" ( which means : dud, useless or flaccid ) AND A "FLIP-FLOP".
1ST HE SAID THEY ARE DUDS AND NOW HE SAY THEY ARE NOT SO STUPID.
HELLO TDM, GUESS ITS MAMAK AND NOT MELAYU MUDAH LUPA KAN? AND YOU CAN NEVER STOP FLIPPING & FLOPPING ALSO HUH? TAKE A REST GRANDPA!
@@@whattheheck
Ah ha! A slip of the tongue from the old man. Meaning dont use the old trick twice?
Ah ha! A slip of the tongue from the old man. Meaning dont use the old trick twice?
and they measure his 'dickie" ?
why, so they could fill in the blank that saifool left out on his report ke?
so mamak, the government is really STUPID & UNIMAGINATIVE, using your modus operandi.
#GrandpaTokKok
Politicians like T.M are charismatic and popular for people in country like Malaysia.
To EU people, the story are different. T.M will be shoot down by analyst, scholar, media etc.
As usual different politics arena. 1st world infra, 3rd world mentality.
Bayi,
That's the essence and we observed the phenomena.
Fair,
There's no point of debate between the two; they would just be throwing diatribes.
Toolan,
I tend to agree with your statement.
Traitor,
I think your statement is a bit harsh.
Warrior2,
We have to observe phenomena and dissect them in its nature and structure to discover the profundity.
CK,
The essence is not about TDM; it's about power and money.
Cult Free,
Thanks for the link.
Salim,
I did not interpret; I dissect statements and analyze them in linguistic philosophy.
Pogadai,
Maybe, you don't like RPK. Is he related to your family or you are related to his?
Oris,
I don't agree with you. He is not sick nor senile; he knows what he wants.
Paula,
You had a good analysis derived from activities.
I'm not sure whether there is any alternative.
Garden,
Sorry to hear that you are sick with this; you should see a doctor.
GrandpaTokkok,
I'm not sure if they did measure that dickie; and I am not sure if there was blanks to fill-in; but we really don't understand why the police won't give Anwar a copy of the police report of which he is implicated.
Moo_t,
I admire that man, irrespective.
Can old dog learn new tricks?
I'm just amused why TDM talked about theoretical probability of the crime and not on the evidence gathered.
It's as if the evidence from the alleged crime is irrelevant here.
But then again who can forget the infamous 'mattress' of yesteryears.. ;-(
TDM had his years before.now its Pak Lah governing period.TDM has his right to voice out his opinion but he seems like he want to interfere again and again in national affairs.
give Pak Lah some space,will ya.
Hello Mave,
Yup I must say that basically what he says is true. The govt would not be so stupid in doing the same tricks to pin down a highly known veteran politician. Its obvious.
Pak Lah dan TDM mempunyai pendirian dan pendekatan yang berbeza. Mengapa perlu dibandingkan? Era masing2 berbeza.. Give Pak Lah some space, like teenage politik said...
Hasilox,
Haha...that's a tough question.
Helen,
I like your points said. It's perplexing.
Teenage Politik,
Your wish is granted by me; but you have to ask TDM.
Wisdomthinker,
I am against such perception; irrespective when this is about the law and a person accused. It should be left to the law and the courts to form the judgment instead of an individual who had nothing to lose and instead is seen as having purposive interest to gain from the pain of another.
Mankanan,
You should tell TDM at chedet.com.
salam perjuangan..
saya amat kagum dengan peribadi DSAI melawan kemungkaran yang bermaharajalela di dalam negara kita.. sesungguhnya perbuatan mereka amat jijik dan kejam..saya mendoakan agar mereka hidup tidak tenteram dan menerima bala dari Allah..mereka amat sombong sampai sanggup mempermainkan sumpah..cilaka betul..sy doakan agar dato' seri akan tabah menghadapi dugaan.. bukan senang nak dapat permata seperti dato seri di dalam dunia ini..semoga berjaya
http://www.farisniaga.blogspot.com
http://www.farisniaga.com
"Yup I must say that basically what he says is true. The govt would not be so stupid in doing the same tricks to pin down a highly known veteran politician. Its obvious."
Yeah right, when his prodigy is still in the government and is perceived to be linked to Altantuya's murder case.
Btw, I wish to quote Vineeth Menon
from Mtoday:
"It seems that Malaysia has now officially secured another world-class record. We are the first country in the world where victims of sodomy can get the personal attention and sympathy of the top two government officials, namely the Prime Minister ( TDM ) and Deputy Prime Minister ( Najib )."
Amazing isn't it in this land of anything goes?
So wisdomthinker, try to wise up!
I would like to touch on your last point. Yes, Dr M is the Great Communicator. Notice he never ever uses big words. I believe he has what is known as clarity of thought.
Anwar, when he is speechifying, is hard to follow.
Audience
ALERT!!!!!!
What is going on here?
STAR 18 July 2008 10.30pm :
Kelana Jaya MP Loh Gwo Burne has lodged a police report that he was asaultedby an aide of Seri Setia assemblyman Nik Nazmi Nik Ahmad
[Both Loh and Nik Nazmi are from PKR]
Its a pity some people cannot understand your thesis and Tun's words.
Faris,
Thanks.
Suzy,
This is a land of opportunity..........
for criminals
Apa Sudah Jadi,
Thanks for the alert.
Bung Karno,
I am happy that at least I have one person who can digest my thesis. Thanks, Bung Karno.
Once a lie starts, more lies need to make in order to perpetuate the 1st lie.
In between these lies contradictions show and the lies are exposed.
The art is to tell the same lie many time without additional inputs, then the listeners will start to believe in it!
But then 'Goebbels-ism' is a rare talent. Not even Mahathir.
"I am not interested whether the accusation is true or false"
no lah.. that's too much.. of coz you are..
-kitkit-
Dr Zahari should come out and telling the truth, and "he harus bertaubat".
http://www.anwaraidc.com/2010/06/mengapa-gelaran-chua-jui-meng-ditarik-balik.html
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